The Canadian-Morgan Connection

[Susan Neal]

Just ran across a fun article online by author Terry McNamee about the Canadian-Morgan connection (http://horses.suite101.com/article.cfm/morgan_horses_and_the_canadi...)
and thought we should be partnering with morgan folks at their shows, and not just the Freisian folks. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Also, on www.equinesite.com I came across the listing for the American Cheval Canadien Association out of Maine. Couldn't find a website though. Does anyone know more about this association?

[Dream Horse Canadians]

Hi Susan
We are part of The Topsfield show because Sue Heath and her efforts. She has a friend in The Northeast Friesian Horse Club that gave the Canadian a shot at bringing horses to the show. They had Gypsy horses as well a few years ago but the turnout was so low they dropped them. That is why it is so important that we all bring our horses to this show. If we don't, there is no promising the Canadian will be invited back next year.

I had been working on Canadian classes being added to the lineup at South Shore Horsemans six show series, but the show pretty much went belly up. They are slowly building it up again.
If this is something you would be interested in doing I would gladly work with you on this. I am not sure that the Morgan people would be interested because there is a bit of controversy about the Canadian influence on the Morgan. There are lots of shows we could look at. Let me know your thoughts.

I have seen that American Cheval Canadien Association listed on Equinesite. It may have been a tried and failed group. I have been promoting NECC for five years now and I have never heard from anyone from that assoc. I am frequently on Equinesite and have never seen any postings from them either.

[Karl Shelin]

I couldn't agree more. I really want to see a Cheval Canadien show hosted by NECC in our future and the turnout in Topsfield is a good indicator of enthusiasm and willingness to participate. Meanwhile any affiliations or collocated classes would be a great way to show people Canadian Horses. While showing isn't really my passion I've found when we get out there people are quite thrilled to see Canadian Horses.

To the best of my knowledge the Classic in Topsfield is the only show we have here in the States that "features" Canadian Horses and therefore I want to see a lot of support for it.

I was pleased to see in the show pamphlet that of 9 Canadian classes 6 of them are sponsored well in advance. That's a good thing and thank you to all who are sponsoring classes!

I might also note that the photographer is Jeff Anderson. He's great to work with and he does really nice stuff. We have beautiful pictures of our past participation. In my photos the pictures "Lids at the Classic" and "NEFHC-2006" were taken by Jeff.

[Susan Neal]

Thanks for the input. As we consider moving from simply an online discussion group to an actual organization, I thought I would just throw some ideas out there. I can understand the more modern, park-horse morgan people not wanting anything to do with us. (I worked in that world for a while.) Perhaps we could lean more toward the Lippitt side. With our current economy, I think many clubs and organizations will need to seriously consider new and inventive ways to stay afloat. In the future we may begin to see consolidation and cooperation between a number or organizations. So it would not surprise me down the road to see opportunites open that we had never considered. We should be grateful to the Freisian folks for inviting us onboard. But I also wouldn't let past ill feelings from some breed associations dampen our desires to promote the Canadian. But, since I have not been involved in showing horses since I was a teenager, I am probably the last person to be able to make any important strides in this area. However, I may begin to make some inquiries regarding partnerships at least in my area (central New York). And perhaps it is disciplines (such as dressage or driving organizations) that we need to approach as opposed to other breed clubs. In any case, I am looking forward to becoming more active in the horse world once again. For the last 15+ years I have been busy in the dog world. It will be nice to get back to my horsey roots again. I am grateful for this website and its forums. Cheers!

[Dream Horse Canadians]

Great! I like your way of thinking. As you know making NECC a formal association is already underway.

I am not really sure how the majority of the Morgan folk feel about the Canadian. I have seen most of the disputes online on message boards like yahoo. I have not spoken to anyone first hand about it. Maybe someone else can give some input on this.

Susan from the group with Duke received a USDF breed award in dressage last season. She can give some input for dressage as well as Kimberely, who trains Jospatriote.

Hopefully some other people will join in on this conversation.

[Laurie Alberts]

Thanks for the article. She left out that genetic tests show the Morgan and Canadien to be the two closest breeds. I wonder if anyone has tested Canadiens genetically to see if the Arab, Andalusian and "Norman"(Percheron ?) markers are there. I've never heard of any Friesien connection before. I kind of doubt that Morgan folks would agree. Every morgan owner I've mentioned the Canadien connection to has denied it!

[Susan Neal]

I guess I would be the Morgan owner exception. I grew up working with Morgans on a wonderful old farm in Massachuetts-Townsend Morgan Farm. Even though they were heavily into park horses, the old style Morgan was still very apparent in their breeding program. They still had very substantial horses, unlike some of the modern saddlebred looking, delicate Morgans of today. When I first "discovered" Canadians my initial thought was "Hey, old style Morgan." So even I saw the historic link. I've been without a horse for the last 7 or 8 years and kept trying to locate a Canadian to no avail. So I ended up with a wonderful, solid black Morgan colt last year. He turns 2 next week. And wouldn't you know it, a few months after bringing him home, I hooked up with Sue Heath and bought a little Canadian gelding from her. Now I have the best of both worlds...two black boys with a historic link to each other (at least as far as I'm concerned.)

On another note, I found it interesting that the Topsfield show not only has classes for our Canadians, but also a few classes for Morgans. Whatta ya know?

[Jean]

I grew up with Morgans from the Townsend Morgan Farm, but it was before the moved to MA. They used to be in VT.

I was at a Morgan farm last week and the owner asked how it was going with my horses. I told him my Canadian and I had just come back from a 3 day driving clinic and he was doing great. He mentioned that he had never heard of the Canadian until 2 months ago when he saw Sue Heath ride in the Everything Equine event. His horses are mostly park horses, but he does have a few western pleasure ones too.

I think if we all keep getting our horses out there for the world to see then people will grow to love them as they did the old style morgan.

[Susan Neal]

I agree. Virtually no one here in central New York has ever heard of Canadians, including my vets, trimmer, and tooth fairy. I always get this blank stare when I explain that one of my horses is a Canadian, but I greatly enjoy educating these folks! I think that is part of the appeal of owning a Canadian...being a caretaker of something rare and precious.

As for Townsend Morgan Farm, I will always be indebted to Nancy Caisse and her parents, Roger and Anna Ela. The majority of my equine education was earned on their farm. Our 4H horse club was based at their farm and I later enjoyed working for them. Going to the National in Springfield, MA each year was always a thrill. So many beautiful horses!

[Norman A. Brown]

A TV Producer from Quebec is riding Candians from Quebec City to Texas A & M for Genetic Testing to determine the connection with other breeds. The article was in The Caledonian-Record newpaper last week. It will be interesting to see the results. Norm Brown proud owner of 3 Canadians one of which is on the 2009 Canadian Stamp representing the National Horse of Canada.

[Susan Neal]

Looks like for those of us who are interested we should check in with Texas A&M at some later date for their genetic research results. I know I'm curious.

[Laurel Okorofsky]

I've just requested a genetic test kit from the Canadian Livestock Records Corp in order to help determine if my horse is of Canadian descent. He's a dead-ringer, and people who've seen him and are familiar with the breed are sure he's the real thing.

Are any of you familiar with what sort of results can be expected? Laurie, you mention some specific markers. Can you elaborate?

What's the down side, for a Morgan purist, to the Canadian connection? Too "blue collar" or the like.

Laurel

[Susan Neal]

Coming from the Morgan world, I know there is this underlying notion that the breed sort of sprang from nowhere into existence. This is silly of course, as Figure, the founding stallion, still had to originate from something, so why not a Canadian-mix background. And I think today there is a feeling that the modern Morgan could not have anything in common with a "coarse Canadian work horse." I will be very interested to learn more about the equine genetics project at Texas A&M. I'd love to have my own Morgan and Canadian tested and compare the two of them. I work for Cornell so perhaps I'll make some inquiries to the vet school.